Seton Hall game thread 2/9/22

[Anti-Homer]

On a sobering note, I am thrilled to pieces that Edwards got some PT, because apparently, Dante Jackson had a closed door meeting with him recently because he is seriously considering transferring. Hops, if you want to get the JR Mod internship this summer, go to your sources and find out where this stands. Can you blame him? Free generally plays poorly, but still get 35 minutes a game. Edwards, like Ramsey did, has to wonder what it would take to get P.T. Then, there is Miles who played 15 decent minutes off the bench until Free-Bluiett came back, then was relegated to Tandy time, so he has to wonder where he lies on the depth chart. You know, the same guy Steele said was the best shooter on the team last year. This is reason number 28 why Steele has been a disaster.

Look at Wes Miller. He plays about 10 guys a game, because he knows the importance of developing players, keeping them engaged, so they aren't simply thrown into emergency duty b/c their Jersey Shore wannabe Free-Bluett selfishly gets booted and costs X two free throws and a possession in a close game. Let's see what discipline Steele doles out - after calling his dad later and getting permission 1st. He recruits well, but doesn't develop players, coach them, or have any semblance of a consistent offense. He is an AAU caliber coach, pure and simple. It makes one wonder how much Ramesy could have contributed this year, if his uniform was washed more than three times last year.

[pdxmuskie]

What is my record Muskieman? I never thought Mack was a good coach because he didn't achieve potential in most years. I loved Miller as a coach because he achieved maximum potential. Don't recall saying much about others.

Travis is the reincarnation of Mack but performing at a lower level. Same basic strategy but he doesn't have the consistent shooters.

Money is powerful but knowledge and determination can overcome money. Travis better up his game. Patience is wearing thin. Being less than completely incompetent would have won today.

[pdxmuskie]

AH, I generally agree with a lot of what you post but you can't play players simply for development all year. There are times for this. There are also times to look to the bench to find a hot hand, find someone willing to defend, etc. Early season is generally for development. Early in games can be used to test players. If Wes is going deep in the lineup, it is likely because they are all contributing in 1 way or another. Or he is using them to motivate key players to play better. Throwing a game here or there to force productivity is a reasonable choice.

[Anti-Homer]

AH, I generally agree with a lot of what you post but you can't play players simply for development all year. There are times for this. There are also times to look to the bench to find a hot hand, find someone willing to defend, etc. Early season is generally for development. Early in games can be used to test players. If Wes is going deep in the lineup, it is likely because they are all contributing in 1 way or another. Or he is using them to motivate key players to play better. Throwing a game here or there to force productivity is a reasonable choice.

If a player is at the core of your future, you certainly can/should find him PT. Beating Butler by 20+ most of the 2nd half should have gotten guys like Edwards lots of minutes. Getting him in the shootout when the lead almost ballooned to 30 so he has some in game experience next year is something any coach above a JV level would do. Tandy played a lot as a freshman as did Zach, and both had very good years. Sadly though, one didn't cheer on the bench loudly enough so he shares his locker with a team mgr.

I used to get really upset after losses, but finally realized it would be like expecting Patrick Ewing to all of a sudden coach like Jay Wright. If it is not in their DNA, it's not in their DNA. Coaches can learn, but have you seen any growth in Steele? Metrics do not lie. I don't wish anyone to be terminated, but wouldn't mind if Louisville or even MSU plucked him from X should Izzo decide to retire. I've never seen so much apathy with this program. The problem is his boss' idea of a successful season is finishing 8th at a mid-major. I was spoiled with Matta, Miller, and Mack. Hmmmm, three Ms, and three successful coaches Just think we hired a different coach whose last name began with an M. Wonder if any are around, like 3.4 miles away.

[Cliff Clavin]

What a tough 4 years of Xavier basketball! Every year for Steele, save for the first, has started with good hopes and pretty solid starts only to consistently fall apart down the stretch. Year 2 Quentin Goodin and Naji Marshall are the problem and Paul Scruggs gets hurt down the stretch. Year 3 Jason Carter and COVID are the problem and Nate Johnson gets hurt down the stretch. Year 4 you can blame Zach Freemantle (can’t make a shot so his Swiss cheese defense and charmin soft rebounding really come into focus) and Paul Scruggs (feels the pressure of his last year and is forcing it). At what point is it ok to lay some blame at the feet of the staff?

Scruggs is far better off the ball, maybe let Odom or anyone else take the reigns for the majority of the game. Instead of benching Johnson for an extra 5 minutes for every Scruggs turnover let Scruggs sit every now and then.

Limit Freemantles minutes until he does more than just make 75% of his shots in practice and maybe gets a rebound that doesn’t just fall into his hands. AH is usually spot on and if Edwards is even thinking of leaving give him some of Free’s undeserved 30 minutes a game. Miles, Edwards, and Stanley all deserve better than what is happening to them. Free and Hunter have done ZERO to keep them on the bench all year.

I agree with AH, Xavier is theoretically a deep team and Steele is running out 8 players right now, if you include Hunter getting 8 or less minutes. It has been four years and not one of those years has it felt like Steele figured out a proper lineup or sub pattern. It has never made any sense. The only consistent part is the 1-2 undeserved players who he refuses to bench.

Xavier used to be known for two major things; developing their players and toughness. What player has developed in the last 4 years? What player has been markedly better than the year before. There isn’t a single Love, Holloway, Raymond, Farr, or any solid college player who has just got better year after year. Outside of Jones, Nunge, and some times Scruggs there isn’t a guy on the team that can be trusted to get a rebound or crucial stop.

Rooting for X to understand the game is 4o minutes (more if there is overtime) and not just 13 minutes. Until they figure that out it will be a frustrating 4+ hours each week. Team has shown they can be good, just like the staff I will cross my fingers and hope things magically get better!

Xavier used to be the team in Cincinnati that gave a glimmer of hope, at least now the Bengals are taking that mantle. Who Dey!

[pdxmuskie]

OK AH. What you are describing is very different from what I was thinking as playing time. Playing the bench when up big to give them minutes can be done. I would however prefer to research it to see what the results are before getting behind the movement. Does a player benefit from garbage minutes? Great for walk-ons to get a chance to get stats but probably only develops players if getting minutes with other primary players.

I have no problems firing someone, especially when they could theoretically retire after a few years if they were smart with their money. Travis deserves no protection. He was compensated very well. How many here would not take the pay he was given the past several years? Should Travis be fired? The answer is yes. There is no doubt. The question is only whether I should make it a personal goal. Muskieman holds the key to that. Tell me again how my opinion doesn't matter. Tell me how only money matters.

[pdxmuskie]

Well said Cliff.

[Anti-Homer]

It seems like yesterday when I started my internship as a moderator. I remember the days when our dearly departed & beloved Neutral & Shadow, and Mman made me clean the floors and stairs at Schmidt Fieldhouse with a toothbrush, sneak a rhinoceros into the Dean's office at UC in the Shootout of 12' ironically enough, and moderate the board for 96 hours straight with only a liter of water and a bucket while locked in the janitor's closet.

Nine years later, as I hold the esteemed post of Jr-Sr Moderator, there are many times I still get frustrated at the unrelenting criticism of some posters. However, when the return of esteemed ones like Cliff Clavin come back with an eloquent and beautiful prose, perfectly encapsulating the career of one Travis Steele in a few paragraphs, it makes all those dark posts worthwhile.

I never realized how many posters I have influenced am an still surprised by the dozens of MM contributors who stop me on the street daily and simply put a pen at my feet like Victory Pkwy's version of John Nash. We are all fans of X basketball, and have enjoyed 17 years of excellence in the Matta, Miller, and Mack years. Unfortunately, the trajectory has gone down since then, but I still hold out hope that this year doesn't implode like the past, and the excellence we've come to expect at Cintas makes a glorious return.

Who Dey!!!

[bluegrass]

Outside of Nunge,this is pretty much the same team we had last year. Nunge is far better than Carter so that was an improvement.Freemantle unfortunately has not been as good as last year.Scruggs has generally been ok outside of turnovers.I think he has to do more because Johnson has fallen off the map. It's great to see Edwards play well last night .Maybe he can step up down the stretch .Makes you wonder why he wasn't playing sooner. Jones seems to have a lot of potential but he needs to do more offensively. Feels like we're repeating the last 2 years and will fall out of the tournament again.They have plenty of chances for Q1 wins but the way they're playing doesn't give me any reason to feel optimistic

[X-lucidity]

First- need help. Flew in late last eve from biz trip and missed game. Have had no time to try and watch a replay. I believe there was some incident with Freemantle, maybe a tech foul or some pouting? Can someone briefly recap what if anything occurred. (much appreciated and sorry to have to ask)
* As for game, not having seen it, seems like an Aerosmith song: 'Same old Song & Dance'
- Lousy start
- inconsistent offense
- Can't quite climb the hill
Maybe there were more revelations but again, I only see box score and game flow chart. That said, bottom line: If we had not puked the bed versus DePaul, this competitive loss at Seton hall would not have even been an issue at all....