Steele not Mack!

Talk XU Men's basketball here...
longliveskip
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Re: Steele not Mack!

Postby longliveskip » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:28 pm

madness31 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:08 pm
The 1 and 2 seeds were more the result of an improved SOS due to league affiliation. I'm not overly impressed with the BE other than obviously Nova but what is great about the league is that there are no terrible teams or at least not several. Generally the conference has done well against non conference opponents until the tournament at which time the conference folds other than Nova the last few years. X has also made some runs but should have made several more.

Some of you call attention to the years X has overachieved with a focus on seed but ignore the years the team underachieved. I'd also suggest seed alone is not an appropriate measure. X should have been a top 5 team Tu's senior year but bad coaching had them limping into the tournament. A confident Frease suddenly emerged and the team was saved from complete embarrassment. Lyons was a talent but his shot selection and decision making was destructive to the team. That is exceptionally bad coaching. Even Tu, who obviously had a great career, was slow to grasp the concept of shot selection. Had that team won games it should have during the season they would have been a 2 seed and expectations would have been much higher. The team overachieved twice in the tournament under Mack and underachieved 4 times. That is not a resume that screams great coach. It is well within the range of average.

This still puts too much focus on wins and losses which only partially speaks to a coaches ability. To properly judge a coach you have to look at player development, in game adjustments, defensive and offensive strategies, out of bounds plays, etc. Mack showed improvement over the years in some of those categories. His zone was unique but overall defense has been a huge liability. Rarely did X make halftime adjustments that got them back into a game. Occasionally a player was able to heat up and put the team on their back but I don't credit the coach with those heroics. Riding the hot hand is 1 thing but demanding 1 to win a game is very different. That is desperation coaching.

If I didn't watch most of the games and simply looked at the record and the tournament results I would assume Mack was a great coach. But since I did watch most of the games and experienced the frustration with much of the coaching I can safely conclude he was about average. There was a lot of undeveloped and underutilized talent during the Mack years. There was also a huge dependency on a star to emerge each year and carry the team. Most coaches live and die by their star player, which is exactly what makes someone average - when they do the same thing everyone else does.
this is all i need to read to pretty much discredit any other opinion in this post. MMQB at it's finest. unreal.

good luck.
skyhops
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Re: Steele not Mack!

Postby skyhops » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:39 pm

Mack's narcissism as well as hos dialogue with Louisville the last year is well known. The depleted roster and depth at guard is also his fault. Gates leaving wa due to the fact he couldn't stand Mack.
Anti-Homer
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Re: Steele not Mack!

Postby Anti-Homer » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:02 pm

longliveskip wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:13 pm
skyhops wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:44 pm
Best of Luck Mack? He was talking to Louisville during the year and verbally agreed to the job before the big east. He had no loyalty so why should we be loyal to him.
these are the things that we would love to know how you know, but we are all just supposed to take your word for it? whatever.

i have ZERO problem with him talking to U of L before the season was done. Pitino had been fired. their guy was an interim. do you REALLY believe he didn't give everything he had to try and get Xavier as far as they possibly could? do you think he was thinking "it doesn't matter what we do because i'm leaving?" total BS.

it was the only job he was leaving for, they wanted him, and he was offered it. if you were in the middle of a contract with the company you work for and your dream job called you and wanted you, would you not at least llsten? would you not jump at the chance? c'mon, man. that's not being disloyal. anyone in his shoes would at least listen. and any one of us would jump at the chance for a job like that.
these are the things that we would love to know how you know, but we are all just supposed to take your word for it? whatever.
The only people I know who didn't know CM made a deal w/Louisville before the season started was a tribe recently discovered in New Guinea.
it was the only job he was leaving for, they wanted him, and he was offered it
Wrong. He was going to leave AFTER HIS 1st YEAR taking a team some pundits predicted to be FF candidates to the SW16. The ink was almost dry on the Tenn offer, until he found out about looming sanctions due to Bruce Pearl's infamous barbeque, among other indiscretions. I hope he got a refund for the Dollywood season tickets he bought.

He also verbally accepted the CA job, bu was vetoed by his wife. CA, not UCLA, Michigan, or Texas. I would have had no problem with him either, if that was what he deemed was best for his family, as long as he was 100% invested in X until he left. I could even accept 95%. However, the 12% effort he had last year was just a little too low.
skyhops
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Re: Steele not Mack!

Postby skyhops » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:58 pm

Amen Homer, another post loaded facts not speculation. Glad we don't let our wives push us around
longliveskip
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Re: Steele not Mack!

Postby longliveskip » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:25 am

skyhops wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:39 pm
Mack's narcissism as well as hos dialogue with Louisville the last year is well known. The depleted roster and depth at guard is also his fault. Gates leaving wa due to the fact he couldn't stand Mack.
this take is also laughable. and false because there's really no evidence to back it up. except your word on this board, which we are all supposed to take as gospel for some reason. well, i don't.
longliveskip
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Re: Steele not Mack!

Postby longliveskip » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:30 am

Anti-Homer wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:02 pm
longliveskip wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:13 pm
skyhops wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:44 pm
Best of Luck Mack? He was talking to Louisville during the year and verbally agreed to the job before the big east. He had no loyalty so why should we be loyal to him.
these are the things that we would love to know how you know, but we are all just supposed to take your word for it? whatever.

i have ZERO problem with him talking to U of L before the season was done. Pitino had been fired. their guy was an interim. do you REALLY believe he didn't give everything he had to try and get Xavier as far as they possibly could? do you think he was thinking "it doesn't matter what we do because i'm leaving?" total BS.

it was the only job he was leaving for, they wanted him, and he was offered it. if you were in the middle of a contract with the company you work for and your dream job called you and wanted you, would you not at least llsten? would you not jump at the chance? c'mon, man. that's not being disloyal. anyone in his shoes would at least listen. and any one of us would jump at the chance for a job like that.
these are the things that we would love to know how you know, but we are all just supposed to take your word for it? whatever.
The only people I know who didn't know CM made a deal w/Louisville before the season started was a tribe recently discovered in New Guinea.
it was the only job he was leaving for, they wanted him, and he was offered it
Wrong. He was going to leave AFTER HIS 1st YEAR taking a team some pundits predicted to be FF candidates to the SW16. The ink was almost dry on the Tenn offer, until he found out about looming sanctions due to Bruce Pearl's infamous barbeque, among other indiscretions. I hope he got a refund for the Dollywood season tickets he bought.

He also verbally accepted the CA job, bu was vetoed by his wife. CA, not UCLA, Michigan, or Texas. I would have had no problem with him either, if that was what he deemed was best for his family, as long as he was 100% invested in X until he left. I could even accept 95%. However, the 12% effort he had last year was just a little too low.
once again - laughable take.

and he DIDN'T leave for those jobs. once he got X in the BE and elevated the program to the status that it was, he wasn't leaving for anything but U of L.

and 12% effort, once again is laughable.
webxu
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Re: Steele not Mack!

Postby webxu » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:18 am

longliveskip wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:13 pm
skyhops wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:44 pm
Best of Luck Mack? He was talking to Louisville during the year and verbally agreed to the job before the big east. He had no loyalty so why should we be loyal to him.
these are the things that we would love to know how you know, but we are all just supposed to take your word for it? whatever.

i have ZERO problem with him talking to U of L before the season was done. Pitino had been fired. their guy was an interim. do you REALLY believe he didn't give everything he had to try and get Xavier as far as they possibly could? do you think he was thinking "it doesn't matter what we do because i'm leaving?" total BS.

it was the only job he was leaving for, they wanted him, and he was offered it. if you were in the middle of a contract with the company you work for and your dream job called you and wanted you, would you not at least llsten? would you not jump at the chance? c'mon, man. that's not being disloyal. anyone in his shoes would at least listen. and any one of us would jump at the chance for a job like that.

Sorry.. huge problem with that. Lville knew he was their guy, he knew he wanted it so it would have been there AFTER the season. the fact that he was essentially working for them while putting up the façade of our coach is a huge issue for me. the job wasn't going anywhere, if anything he cost himself more $ by not reaching our full potential last year. Just don't see the harm in telling Lville, yes im interested, but lets wait until April.
skyhops
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Re: Steele not Mack!

Postby skyhops » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:38 am

Exactly web, which was was a huge issue during the Big East and NCAA tourney among the players. Once again this is not from sources, just widely known. I typically love everyone, but I have no love loss for Mack.
Anti-Homer
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Re: Steele not Mack!

Postby Anti-Homer » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:32 pm

skyhops wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:38 am
Exactly web, which was was a huge issue during the Big East and NCAA tourney among the players. Once again this is not from sources, just widely known. I typically love everyone, but I have no love loss for Mack.
Antoher recruit said he went to L-Ville, because as CM related, "I took an average program and elevated them to top seeds in the tourney." Two things he omitted in his embellishment:

1. His predecessors of the "average" program he inherited with a loaded roster went to two E8s in the 6 years prior to the arrival. With A-10 players no less!

2. He went to one E-8 ONCE in 9 years and didn't make it out of the 1st weekend as a 1 and 2 seed. With Big East caliber players no less! He was a perfect complement to L-Villle with Petrino when it came to narcissism. Too bad he was let go. Perfect bookends.

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