Marquette game thread 3-6-21

[ChitownSteve]

Kunkel playing a great 2nd half. Bring in Griffin for Free. I don't recall a worse post defender in my 80 years of fandom at X.

Anti:

No offense (same as X’s O attack), but frankly tired of people criticizing Zach, who is a 4, doing his best as a 5.

Tonight’s stat line:

Min. PT’s REB’s

Theo John (SR) 28. 6. 3
Zach. (SO) 29. 8. 6

Did John bring other things to the floor tonight that Zach did not, of course he did. John had some assists and is an inside presence. Zach spotted him 2 years of BE experience and has moved up in weight class to fight as a 5 down low. Maybe more Zach and Griffin together as a 4 and 5 is the right formula.

Sure I am more likely to defend Zach because he attended a school in the network I attended. But criticizing the 2nd most consistent player on this year’s team simply needs to stop. Others have named another player or two who underachieved tonight. We are all frustrated.

Additionally, I now admit to being baffled by the Tandy situation. Coach Steele ensured we lost the Georgetown game by going Defense for Offense and substituting Odom for Tandy at the end of the Georgetown game. X got the missed FT rebound and Odom was out of bounds. Tonight, trying to catch up in the last 2 minutes and Tandy is nowhere to be found? Incomprehensible.

Your turn!

[edgecliff hall]

The best thing that can happen for Mr. Steele now, and it might even save his job, will be for Jason Carter to Graduate.

[AirJordan]

I did like the effort last night but otherwise, the result seems predictable. Under Steele, our boys melt down at season end. The best thing about this season is that it is almost over. COVID had an obvious negative effect but it had that effect on all teams.

After watching Steele for three years, I am out of gas. I have read comments (with which I agree) that we have some players who simply do not have the talent to compete in our conference. I have concluded, mostly over the course of this season, that our coach is not a Big East coach. I don't see much, in the way of coaching savvy, in him. His lineups and in-game moves are robotic, predictable, etc. We played slow down for virtually an entire season even though we had a surplus of guards and almost no big men. We had Carter jacking threes while Tandy sat on the bench. I could go on but would simply be repeating comments others have made on this board throughout the season.

I like our freshman but I don't see a lot of talent coming back next year and Tandy, certainly, will move on. In a conference that requires Tyrique Jones-like presence in the middle, we had none this year and absent obtaining a big man via transfer, we will have none next year. Next year, right now, looks like it could be a repeat (or worse) of this year.

This is the second year in a row that I've been relieved season-end is finally here. X, a once rising basketball program, has descended into mediocrity. Hard to get excited about that.

[thecoach]

Air I think in this league the teams and schools are pretty well balanced with the exception of Nova who enjoy the benefits of two nati's and Jay Wright when it comes to getting talent. My guess is Uconn is headed back in that direction as well. The remainder of teams and programs are similar so ultimately it's the coach who's going to have to distinguish himself through recruiting well and even more importantly recruiting to his system. I'm not sure Travis has necessarily developed the latter yet, and the roster isn't necessarily consistent with what they try to do night in and night out. Result is middle of the road. Unless Blueitt comes walking back into the arena, he's in a scrum against most of these schools particularly with a small front line, and inconsistent perimeter shooting. He's got his work cut out for him.

[skyhops]

I’m note sure we know what Steele wants to do or our identity. When someone uses the excuse of losing your best shooter, why are we continuing to take 3’s when we are one of the worst shooting teams in the league? AH was correct when we called a timeout to get Kunkel a 3, which not surprisingly missed. That is not good basketball especially since we tied game based on ball movement and dribble drives. Jones was getting torched on D and had two points yet played the whole game? If Carter wouldn’t have been in foul trouble and hurt he would have played most of game as well. Steele is over his head and really not impressed with recruits especially bigs so far. At least Miles got in at the end for his height. Thanks for getting us to mediocrity Steele.

[Anti-Homer]

Kunkel playing a great 2nd half. Bring in Griffin for Free. I don't recall a worse post defender in my 80 years of fandom at X.

Anti:

No offense (same as X’s O attack), but frankly tired of people criticizing Zach, who is a 4, doing his best as a 5.

Tonight’s stat line:

Min. PT’s REB’s

Theo John (SR) 28. 6. 3
Zach. (SO) 29. 8. 6

Did John bring other things to the floor tonight that Zach did not, of course he did. John had some assists and is an inside presence. Zach spotted him 2 years of BE experience and has moved up in weight class to fight as a 5 down low. Maybe more Zach and Griffin together as a 4 and 5 is the right formula.

Sure I am more likely to defend Zach because he attended a school in the network I attended. But criticizing the 2nd most consistent player on this year’s team simply needs to stop. Others have named another player or two who underachieved tonight. We are all frustrated.

Additionally, I now admit to being baffled by the Tandy situation. Coach Steele ensured we lost the Georgetown game by going Defense for Offense and substituting Odom for Tandy at the end of the Georgetown game. X got the missed FT rebound and Odom was out of bounds. Tonight, trying to catch up in the last 2 minutes and Tandy is nowhere to be found? Incomprehensible.

Your turn!

Anti:

No offense (same as X’s O attack), but frankly tired of people criticizing Zach, who is a 4, doing his best as a 5.

First of all, no offense taken. Fair points made. I’ve stated for the record I really like Free, and though his offense has improved, his shot selection is becoming a little Marshallesque, where the only bad shot is one not taken. You are correct. He is a 4 guarding both fours and fives, but frankly, is pretty inept at both. He has no idea how to defend against a screen and roll. Not his fault. Criticism of Free is more directed at Steele. However, his effort cannot be questioned. He needs to go to the Jason Love school of “Playing solid defense as an undersized center” though. Not his fault he is defensively challenged. TSteele owns it due to roster construction, as X has to play him a lot due to the lack of depth at this position. I think 22-28 min a game sounds about right, depending on how he is playing and matchups. His effectiveness goes down as his usage exceeds a certain threshold, imo. I think he is an excellent second or third option on offense.

Steele has been here three years now, and again, roster construction is under his charge. No idea why our only true five who plays (Miles and Ramsey can’t smell the court for ever changing reasons), Griffin, can’t see more than 10 minutes a game despite solid play. I agree Free has done admirably well considering the circumstances.

Tonight’s stat line:

Min. PT’s REB’s

Theo John (SR) 28. 6. 3
Zach. (SO) 29. 8. 6

No question he outplayed John, but Theo cannot be his barometer. However, to your point, John is a five, and Free a four. I think he will thrive and be an all conference player by his Sr year if he improves his defense, and X gets a true five like Jones, who was the most undersized but dominant five in the league last year.

Did John bring other things to the floor tonight that Zach did not, of course he did. John had some assists and is an inside presence. Zach spotted him 2 years of BE experience and has moved up in weight class to fight as a 5 down low. Maybe more Zach and Griffin together as a 4 and 5 is the right formula. Agreed.

Sure I am more likely to defend Zach because he attended a school in the network I attended. But criticizing the 2nd most consistent player on this year’s team simply needs to stop. I think he is the third most consistent player after Scruggs and Johnson, but Marshall was the best player on the team on paper last year, and deserved a lot of praise, and also some criticism due to his hero ball mentality no? I see nothing wrong with an objective balance of praise and criticism, and know there is never any room for personal attacks, something I've never done or will ever do. Others have named another player or two who underachieved tonight. We are all frustrated.

Additionally, I now admit to being baffled by the Tandy situation. Coach Steele ensured we lost the Georgetown game by going Defense for Offense and substituting Odom for Tandy at the end of the Georgetown game. X got the missed FT rebound and Odom was out of bounds. Tonight, trying to catch up in the last 2 minutes and Tandy is nowhere to be found? Incomprehensible.

Your turn!

I join you in the Travis Steele Befuddled Fan Club. The fact that X was deemed the most inconsistent team in D-1 a month ago when they were 11-2 speaks volumes. That has been staple of his tenure. I really like him as a person, particularly his intensity and the way he treats people as a whole. I think Miller was X’s best coach, but had the personality of a serial killer. Chitown, let’s hope X shocks all and wins at least two games in the BE tourney, and sneaks into the tourney. I don’t expect it, but one can hope. The only guarantee next Wed is that no one will be rooting more for the Muskies next Wed than yours truly.

[X-lucidity]

As has been mentioned, the "fight" in our men was admirable. We just lack the talent. Free, as I and many have said, is a "4". He would be a terrific compliment working with Tyrique for example. Let's not disparage Zach, let's pray we can recruit a solid ''5" grad transfer or JUCO. But as many here do, I worry overall about the apparent subpar coaching levels we have descended to, and the crazy lack of development. (plus just soul searching hesitance to play some of our young recruits even 4 min a game to see if they can blossom down the road.) For all the mistakes and blunders along the way, we had a surprising chance last night last 6 minutes. Problem is, as in EVERY game down this crucial stretch, save Creighton, when we took a critical must have shot, even wide stinking open 3 pointers with our preferred shooters, we missed. Then every time we needed a vital stop, the opponent drains that dagger shot. Venues change, but the theme, plot and script remain the same. We bounce back and forth between- is it the talent level, coaching or a combo. It is now blatantly obvious that it is both. But I lean towards coaching and development as the bigger issue. I am sure we will still have our usual suspects chiming in with their eternal optimism: "hey, we showed determination last night, hit a few more shots and we can make a run in the BE tourney". (OK, well I am rooting for that very thing, right along side you, but I am also rooting for myself to win the lottery next Wednesday eve). I also know, as many are wont to point out, that we should be appreciative of where we are compared to our humble roots. (OK, I graduated in the MCC era and watching Jon Hanley and Steve Spivey, so I appreciate that ascension and will never take it for granted). But only a loser would cling to that forever, stay hungry as a program and never settle, or back down you shall fall. I like and respect Coach Steele & all his staff. Wish them well and root hard. I enjoy and admire all our players. Most of all, I realize this ain't easy. Winning at this level that is. But there are many that have proven they can do it and there are aspiring talented up & comers. One more season of this and we could be entering Depaul'ville, or Wake Forrest town. A perennial bottom feeder. As we see another season crash back to Earth with a resounding thud, I leave you with the immortal wisdom of Bill Paxton. (RIP). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyfriipc61A

[ChitownSteve]

Your turn!

Anti:

No offense (same as X’s O attack), but frankly tired of people criticizing Zach, who is a 4, doing his best as a 5.

First of all, no offense taken. Fair points made. I’ve stated for the record I really like Free, and though his offense has improved, his shot selection is becoming a little Marshallesque, where the only bad shot is one not taken. You are correct. He is a 4 guarding both fours and fives, but frankly, is pretty inept at both. He has no idea how to defend against a screen and roll. Not his fault. Criticism of Free is more directed at Steele. However, his effort cannot be questioned. He needs to go to the Jason Love school of “Playing solid defense as an undersized center” though. Not his fault he is defensively challenged. TSteele owns it due to roster construction, as X has to play him a lot due to the lack of depth at this position. I think 22-28 min a game sounds about right, depending on how he is playing and matchups. His effectiveness goes down as his usage exceeds a certain threshold, imo. I think he is an excellent second or third option on offense.

Steele has been here three years now, and again, roster construction is under his charge. No idea why our only true five who plays (Miles and Ramsey can’t smell the court for ever changing reasons), Griffin, can’t see more than 10 minutes a game despite solid play. I agree Free has done admirably well considering the circumstances.

Tonight’s stat line:

Min. PT’s REB’s

Theo John (SR) 28. 6. 3
Zach. (SO) 29. 8. 6

No question he outplayed John, but Theo cannot be his barometer. However, to your point, John is a five, and Free a four. I think he will thrive and be an all conference player by his Sr year if he improves his defense, and X gets a true five like Jones, who was the most undersized but dominant five in the league last year.

Did John bring other things to the floor tonight that Zach did not, of course he did. John had some assists and is an inside presence. Zach spotted him 2 years of BE experience and has moved up in weight class to fight as a 5 down low. Maybe more Zach and Griffin together as a 4 and 5 is the right formula. Agreed.

Sure I am more likely to defend Zach because he attended a school in the network I attended. But criticizing the 2nd most consistent player on this year’s team simply needs to stop. I think he is the third most consistent player after Scruggs and Johnson, but Marshall was the best player on the team on paper last year, and deserved a lot of praise, and also some criticism due to his hero ball mentality no? I see nothing wrong with an objective balance of praise and criticism, and know there is never any room for personal attacks, something I've never done or will ever do. Others have named another player or two who underachieved tonight. We are all frustrated.

Additionally, I now admit to being baffled by the Tandy situation. Coach Steele ensured we lost the Georgetown game by going Defense for Offense and substituting Odom for Tandy at the end of the Georgetown game. X got the missed FT rebound and Odom was out of bounds. Tonight, trying to catch up in the last 2 minutes and Tandy is nowhere to be found? Incomprehensible.

Your turn!

I join you in the Travis Steele Befuddled Fan Club. The fact that X was deemed the most inconsistent team in D-1 a month ago when they were 11-2 speaks volumes. That has been staple of his tenure. I really like him as a person, particularly his intensity and the way he treats people as a whole. I think Miller was X’s best coach, but had the personality of a serial killer. Chitown, let’s hope X shocks all and wins at least two games in the BE tourney, and sneaks into the tourney. I don’t expect it, but one can hope. The only guarantee next Wed is that no one will be rooting more for the Muskies next Wed than yours truly.

AH:

Fair enough. We are not all that far apart and you get the last word.

Go Muskies!

[Michigan Musketeer]

Saw this movie before. Keep jacking & missing 3’s & letting a mediocre team shoot over 50% layups & dunks. This team had the easiest schedule in the Conference and won a couple buzzer beaters and still couldn’t finish with enough W’s to save the season. Would be surprised if they beat Butler a 3rd time. Feel bad for the players who won’t experience March Madness for the third year in a row. Maybe NIT again but not sure it will help recruiting.

[madness31]

Hey Muskieman,

I did not mean to imply that Griffin is an amazing player. I agree he has plenty of limitations. A double double however is 5 made shots. Scruggs and Odom are easily able to penetrate on fairly consistent basis. Griffin could get 5 buckets a game simply by being in the right place at the right time. His man will step up to help on the penetration, a quick pass has him behind the defense for a dunk. Or he is available for the offensive rebound and put back. Simply put, he would theoretically spend more time on the block than Free or Carter.

He rebounds well. Maybe he gets 7 points and 8 rebounds a game but leaving him on the bench doesn't feel productive. 20 minutes a game is very reasonable.