Butler

[xudash]

"Brew, I'm with you. Butler's pretty darn good. I think we're better, but they are still a pretty darn good basketball team. The age of their stadium, the number of fans who show up, the TV stations they appear on, the newspaper articles written about them, the money spent by the school, and their record against us when we were both in the MCC does not in any way detract from that. They have no relevance whatsoever"

LA, I believe you either missed my point or I wasn't clear enough in making it.

Let's make one thing clear. I respect Butler. It's a great school and it has a respectable PROGRAM. Butler continues to win consistently; good for Butler.

My focus was on Butler's basketball program as compared to Xavier's program. Commentary from a few of these Butler douchebags here would have you believe that Butler's program is on par with Xavier's program. My focus was/is on Butler's program, not its current winning ways, as compared to Xavier's program.

Contrary to what some of these Butler fans care to believe, Butler's program doesn't compete against Xavier's program in virtually every critical measure: facilities, attendance, exposure, reputation, and budget.

When the realignment discussions come up and someone wants to put Butler into that mix, it is important to step back and evaluate Butler's basketball program critically and objectively. Look at what you wrote: attendance, exposure and budget being among the factors you mentioned. Good for Butler that it is capable of accomplishing what it does in most years. But - KEY POINT HERE - they are PERFORMING AT A PEAK LEVEL for them yet they CANNOT PRODUCE consistent SELLOUTS at home. There is a limited demand for the product.

They play in an old historic building, but it isn't enough, considering what a total facilities package should look like to consistently attract top level recruits. They can't drive strong revenue because they don't have sufficient fan support; the fans were arguing a lot last year about raised ticket prices, which appears to have made attendance matters worse. Obviously, the Horizan is a boat anchor around their program neck, but there is little opportunity to fix that, other than to bring Valpo into that league.

The point is Butler should be respected for its success and it has a nice program, but that program does not, cannot, and will not stack up to Xavier's program if both maintain their current respective tracks. It is more likely that Xavier's program will continue to pull away from Butler's program as it has been doing since X joined the A10.

[xubrew]

I will be rooting for my other alma mater, Youngstown State University, to beat the Bulldogs tonight in Indy. Not likely, but man would that be sweet. One team of mine helping out the other.

i want wright state to catch them, so i'm right there with you. i'm watching the game on the horizon league network right now. close calls against wisconsin milwaukee and valpo have been driving me nuts, but i guess that's a good thing. one thing i do love about the horizon league is that it really does feel like a true conference. all the schedules are balanced, the top two teams bye into the semifinals of the conference tournament, and the first place team hosts. it gives the regular season a high-stakes feeling that doesn't exist in some other leagues.

i've only been to a few games at butler, and the games i went to were packed and it truly was awesome. i'm not going to knock butler/hinkle fieldhouse AT ALL. it's old, but it's old in the sense that the palestra and mac court are old. i don't see how anyone could go to the butler vs ohio state game and have anything bad to say about the facilities once that game was over.

having said that, the building is disturbingly empty most of the time. there have got to be fans out there because they do pack the place on occassion, and they had a great showing as far as fan presence in saint louis for the ncaa tournament last year. why aren't more of those people there more of the time?? kudos to the butler fans that do go. hopefully their attendance will grow and some of the multitude of casual fans will graduate to becoming hard core fans.

[kmcrawfo]

I guess one way to compare the programs would be to ask:

Would a Butler Coach be willing to leave his job to coach at Xavier?

Would a Xavier Coach be willing to leave his job to coach at Butler?

I think history pretty much answers this question, and I dare say if Butler's current coach were offered the Xavier job, he would leave in a second.

[LA Muskie]

Sorry, Dash. I may have missed that with all the posts in the thread. I think we're a better team than Butler, but that would ultimately have to be resolved on the court. But there's no doubt we're the better PROGRAM. By far. A lot.

I appreciate and applaud what Butler has done with what it has. It's admirable and they deserve the positive press. But they're not in our league as a program, I agree.

[VoiceOfReason]

So if Butler is ever considered when the A-10 realigns, their 6,000 or so attendance average would be a red flag? Then it's going to be one hell of a realignment, because 6 or 7 of the current schools in the A-10 average less than that. They are getting those figures playing in what everyone admits is a lesser conference. You don't suppose attendance would increase with the likes of X, Dayton and St. Louis coming in every year, do 'ya?

Obviously, the Horizon is a boat anchor around their program neck, but there is little opportunity to fix that, other than to bring Valpo into that league.

The point is Butler should be respected for its success and it has a nice program, but that program does not, cannot, and will not stack up to Xavier's program if both maintain their current respective tracks. It is more likely that Xavier's program will continue to pull away from Butler's program as it has been doing since X joined the A10.

Yeah right. X is smack dab in a mid-major conference and cries when someone dare calls them a mid-major program. Who has the boat anchor around their neck? X isn't going to "pull away" from Butler or anyone else's program as long as they remain a mid-major in a mid-major conference.

As far as rankings and who's better? Who cares? They won't play each other unless they meet up in the tourney and if that happens it would be great for both schools.

[xubrew]

a little off topic, but am i the only person on the planet that thinks the whole "mid-major" thing is very very very stupid?? i'm generally not a fan of most sports media, but for the media to sit around and discuss who is and isn't a mid-major, and trying to specifically define what a mid-major is is worthless journalism even by their standards. it's actually been a great college basketball season so far, and the "story" that's consumed the media the most is "what is a mid-major??" and "is such-and-such team a mid major??" they'll go on for pages and pages discussing whether or not xavier or butler or gonzaga or whoever are mid-majors, and not say a damn thing about what kind of season they're having.

PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP!!

[_LH]

Wake up VOR, XUdash's post is dead on.

[michiganXman]

I personally think the 2 programs are about as even as it gets.

Lets remember, we at X only have 1 Sweet 16 and 1 Elite 8 in the history of our program. How does that compare to Butler?

[_LH]

Seriously Mich? There is much more into what makes a program than NCAA historical results.

[michiganXman]

you are right LH...that argument doesn't support Xavier's case so lets throw it out the window.

Lets stick with the more reasonable "would a Xavier coach leave for the Butler job" line of thinking....





But yes, NCAA tournament success is the single most important thing for an NCAA Basketball program. Just ask UK and UCLA. They didn't get to where they are by having "nice facilities."