Butler

[bluegrass]

I've thought this all season long. They scrape by a lot of very average teams.

That's what a lot of people on here have been saying about Xavier lately.We "barely" beat SLUand GW.When you get in conference,the games are always tough.It doesn't mean you're overrated.

[tmac03]

Let me start by agreeing that I think that Xavier could handily beat Butler on most days. However, a lot of the criticisms being leveled against Butler could be equally applicable to us. We have struggled mightily against several average teams, just like Butler. While Butler's SOS might not be anything to crow about, they may be subject to the same limitation that Xavier has been up until the last couple of years: Big 6 teams know there is usually more risk than reward in scheduling a quality program from outside the Big 6 conferences (do NOT let this lead into a mid-major debate please). I would also disagree that they have no low-post presence. Their freshman, Matt Howard (who we also recruited and narrowly lost out on) has been great on the block. Overall Butler is a very good team, though I agree a bit overrated. I would think that 15-17 in the nation is their proper ranking. Let's give them their due without making bad assertions that they're not a good team; they are a good team, just not as good as we are!

[LA Muskie]

This entire thread sounds eerily similar to George Clooney's recent comment that "Theater actors look down on Film actors, who look down on TV actors. Thank God for reality TV or TV actors wouldn't have anyone to look down on."

Basically, BCS schools look down on us, and we are now doing the same with regard to Butler. We've never played them head-to-head so we have no idea how the game would go. I like our chances but I always like our chances. The point is that Butler has won the games they've played, with the exception of a couple conference hiccups -- both on the road and neither with an RPI in excess of 100. They don't have a particularly great SOS, but that's do largely to something that is out of control: other than Drake, their Horizon Conference foes aren't even as mediocre as they have been in the recent past. (You would think we would understand that predicament more than most.)

Anyway, Butler plays 5 of their final 6 at home, including a home matchup against Drake. If they win out, they will have done just about all they can do to justify their ranking. And I think it is more likely than not that they will do so. Will their ranking (probably in the 7-8 range if that happens) be artificially skewed given their schedule? Of course, but then again ALL rankings are artificial. And they don't matter all that much. If they win out, they are probably a 4 seed (placing them somewhere between 13 and 16 overall), perhaps a 3 seed if the Committee is generous. No way do they get a 2.

[PMI]

Drake is in the MVC.
As for Butler, I do think they're overrated. I heard a lot about AJ Graves coming into the season after his big year last year, but the guy only shoots about 35% from the field and in the games I've watched he takes a lot of bad shots. Our top 7 players all shoot over 40%. They don't play great defense and they don't play any good teams.
But it really doesn't matter because rankings should be taken with a grain of salt. We will get a much better seed than them barring a collapse. I would love a second round matchup with those guys.

[butlerbulldogs]

First off, I am a Butler grad and an MBA student at Xavier. I have read this forum for quite awhile and found it intelligent (obvious, homerism, but it is a Xavier board). I had to register and respond to the ignorance in this thread. Have I watched the same Bulldogs and Muskies this year? If anyone is overrated I would say Xavier (i.e loss @ Arizona by 22 , @ Temple by 19 , tip-in to beat SLU who scored 20 points in a whole game this year!!, barely beating St. Joe's at home, I am pretty sure most top15 teams would beat SJU by more at home, so X must be overrated using your logic) X's quality wins: IU (neutral) (who has beaten only cupcakes, check their schedule), KSU @ HOME (who has beat Kansas, but also lost to some lousy teams) I guess you can count last place UVA and Auburn as "quality." The A-10 is a better conference than the Horizon, but it is not like a major conference, no matter how much X doesn't want to be a mid-major. A-10 is no Big Six and usually no MVC, besides St. Joe's a few years ago, who is really good in the A-10 besides X year in and year out? Not Dayton, when were they last in the tourney? St. Bonnie? La Salle? Duquesne? GW? LOL A-10 gets three teams max, Dayton won't make it, can't lose to GW and Richmond URI probably will make it, maybe UMASS (their best win, SYRACUSE, LOL) or St. Joe's, better hope for A-10's sake, XU doesn't win the tourney or it could be two teams.

Butler has beaten:
Texas Tech (neutral)
if you count, UVA, i think Michigan counts for Butler
Ohio State (65-46)
@ SIU (lost 4 games at home in the 2000s, I know they are .500 this year)
VA Tech
(4-0 vs. MVC)

two losses
@ WSU, 43-42 (w/o Campbell)
@ CSU, 56-52

so we have loss two games by a total of 5 points, we are terrible, I would take either of those losses over Temple by 19. (FYI, both those schools are top100 RPI)

It isn't our fault, the "Big Six" teams we beat didn't have great years, all we do is win.

Overall, I think Xavier and Butler have really good teams and talent-wise Xavier has more athletes, but just ask Tennessee, Gonzaga, Maryland, IU, Purdue, ND, from last year how that worked out for them...careful what you wish for!!

(Funny, how you talk about Butler not playing anybody, but X cries when the nation says they are a mid-major and play in a weak conference)

[Filthy Chilean]

Butler is overrated, there is NO question about it. How overrated? Probably no better than a #15 more like a #20.

Mr. Boodawg, to honestly lecture Xavier fans on strength of schedule/league is laughable, I nearly blew a gasket reading your post.

Before I even mention the horizon league (looks like an all-star lineup from really bad basketball movies) let me burst your bubble concerning that ooc schedule.

Ball St (last place in the MAC), Indiana St (under .500 from the MVC), Evansville (last place in the MVC), Michigan (6-17), VT (14-10 from a top heavy ACC) and TTech (12-10). I will give you OSU out of pity. Simply pathetic yet you attempt to diminish Xavier's ooc schedule?

The Horizon League is rated 10th, the A10 8th. Both schools ranked first but Xavier with one less loss in league play. Come on man.

Xavier's ooc schedule included wins vs ranked IU and ranked KSt (by a landslide).

I need not go on. You lose this discussion bud.

[Nildogg]

Wow. You guys sure do think highly of yourselves don't you?

Did I stumble upon a BCS conference message board, or am I at the home of Xavier, of the A-10, Mid-Major fame? I expect to see stuff like this when I read the garbage of IU or Purdue message boards, or whoever we play in the Pre-Season who assumes a win over us, or whoever we play in the NCAA tourney... (those are usually the best), but from Xavier fans?

Seriously, who do you think you are???

I've read some intelligent posts in this thread, but it amuses me that so many of you think that you are at another level or something?

It was laughable when you were making such a stink in the media about the whole Mid Major thing... you guys really looked foolish.

"You are what you are"

[butlerbulldogs]

X you did a great job against UNC-Charlotte, sorry just Charlotte now. just like I expected for a power team to do (why aren't you dominating the likes of SLU, ST.Joe's, Temple, etc?), also quality win #2, KSU, is getting owned by Texas Tech (the team we beat, but Chilean said wasn't a good win) and IU lost to another ranked team..Xavier 2008 NCAA CHAMPS, just crown 'em, now~!

I forgot the quality win over MAC packer, Miami (OH), oh yea that counts as a quality loss for X!!

[Nildogg]

Oh, and by the way:

Matt Howard says: "Xavier; who?"

Shelvin Mack says: "Xavier; what?"

Keep on day dreaming fellas... you have a good program, but you aren't anything different than Butler; actually, Butler has the upper hand right now!

[xudash]

Oh, and by the way:

Matt Howard says: "Xavier; who?"

Shelvin Mack says: "Xavier; what?"

Keep on day dreaming fellas... you have a good program, but you aren't anything different than Butler; actually, Butler has the upper hand right now!

I have a simple question for you Butler guys: are you happy with your home attendance figures?

See where this is headed?

Virtually all the media blinked when Bobinski turned down that stupid mid-major award, acknowledging that Xavier's program is in fact a major program that plays in a conference that is somewhere between major and mid-major.

Butler has the upper hand? You don't sellout your old building. Your facilities are second rate. I don't believe you have your own TV package. Butler is a fine school and your program is respectable, and respected here. But it stops there.

As programs go, Butler's program does not match up well against Xavier's program and Matt Howard picking Butler over Xavier (for his personal reasons) does not change that fact.

Now the answer to the question posed to you: you aren't happy about it and you know it. You average - what - less than 6k per home game in an old building that seats over 10k?

Please. Butler has a respectable product that has clear and severe limits.