202!

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tacitus
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202!

Postby tacitus » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:20 pm

Congrats to coach Mack on tying Pete Gillen as the winningest coach in Xavier history with 202 career wins!

He does not have the same win percentage as his four predecessors, but his teams have played a much tougher S0S and won a lot more bigger games.

The first column below shows regular season record against top 25 teams. The second column shows NCAA tournament record.

Chris Mack: 20-19 (.513) / 11-7 (.611)
Sean Miller: 3-7 (.300) / 6-4 (.600)
Thad Matta: 3-4 (.429) / 5-3 (.625)
Skip Prosser: 6-11 (.353) / 1-4 (.200)
Pete Gillen: 3-4 (.429) / 6-6 (.500)
Bob Staak: 0-4 (.000) / 0-1 (.000)

He has given us half of our Sweet 16s (4 of 8) and our third Elite 8.

According to Basketballreference.com, 6 of our 10 toughest seasons in terms of SOS have come under Mack's tenure: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/xavier/

As have 5 of our 10 best teams: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/xavier/

You guys keep complaining about defense and shooting slumps, while I keep enjoying the ride while it lasts.
Let's March!
tacitus
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Re: 202!

Postby tacitus » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:21 pm

And of course we have at least three regular season games against ranked opponents remaining.
Let's March!
Anti-Homer
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Re: 202!

Postby Anti-Homer » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:22 pm

tacitus wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:20 pm
Congrats to coach Mack on tying Pete Gillen as the winningest coach in Xavier history with 202 career wins!

He does not have the same win percentage as his four predecessors, but his teams have played a much tougher S0S and won a lot more bigger games.

The first column below shows regular season record against top 25 teams. The second column shows NCAA tournament record.

Chris Mack: 20-19 (.513) / 11-7 (.611)
Sean Miller: 3-7 (.300) / 6-4 (.600)
Thad Matta: 3-4 (.429) / 5-3 (.625)
Skip Prosser: 6-11 (.353) / 1-4 (.200)
Pete Gillen: 3-4 (.429) / 6-6 (.500)
Bob Staak: 0-4 (.000) / 0-1 (.000)

He has given us half of our Sweet 16s (4 of 8) and our third Elite 8.

According to Basketballreference.com, 6 of our 10 toughest seasons in terms of SOS have come under Mack's tenure: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/xavier/

As have 5 of our 10 best teams: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/xavier/

You guys keep complaining about defense and shooting slumps, while I keep enjoying the ride while it lasts.
Apples to papaya comparison. That would be like evaluating Seth Curry's value as a basketball player based on Davidson's accomplishment during his tenure. Davidson was probably the 80th best program, give or take, would seem to imply that he would have graded out as the 400th best player or so. All three coaches did a great job, but being in a top tier league, and having the advantage of telling recruits your program made the E-8 twice in the last six years upon his first year allows one to recruit better players. The caliber of recruits shows that.

Miller and Matta had the A-10 to sell. CM had the BE. Who had the decided advantage there? He also has spent 9 & 12 years more than his predecessor. Miller has been to 4 E-8s, and Matta 2 F-4s. Does that make them better coaches? On paper, absolutely. However, and here is my homerish side rearing its ugly head again, I'd take CM over Miller or Mack, though the margin is razor thin. X couldn't and didn't lose with any of them.

A more appropriate comparison would be to compare records based on the odds of games played. How many times did they win/lose when favored, and by what margin? The analysis also dismisses the most important coach at X in modern times, and that was Pete Gillen. Hands down.
tacitus
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Re: 202!

Postby tacitus » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:16 am

Never claimed Mack was our best coach, and never meant to detract from the previous coaches, on whose successes Mack's success has been predicated. Just stating some hard facts.
Let's March!
Anti-Homer
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Re: 202!

Postby Anti-Homer » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:31 am

tacitus wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:16 am
Never claimed Mack was our best coach, and never meant to detract from the previous coaches, on whose successes Mack's success has been predicated. Just stating some hard facts.
I stand corrected, as I made that assumption. I think it does shows he has been a very good coach for an extended period of time.
Xavier2005
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Re: 202!

Postby Xavier2005 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:52 pm

winning is what counts????!!!! and the only thing that matters in today's world is making THE DANCE and getting deep into the Dance. The season is expected....win and make the Dance......not making the Dance is terrible!!!! lol
xu koop scoop
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Re: 202!

Postby xu koop scoop » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:20 pm

In response to the Davidson comments & Steph Curry, I believe they made the Elite 8 one of his seasons - which is far better than 80th best program. LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER: MACK IS 11-7 IN NCAA. WHAT IS JAY WRIGHT'S OVERALL NCAA RECORD. Doubt it is any better Pct.
tacitus
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Re: 202!

Postby tacitus » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:31 pm

xu koop scoop wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:20 pm
In response to the Davidson comments & Steph Curry, I believe they made the Elite 8 one of his seasons - which is far better than 80th best program. LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER: MACK IS 11-7 IN NCAA. WHAT IS JAY WRIGHT'S OVERALL NCAA RECORD. Doubt it is any better Pct.
Jay Wright is 21-11 (.656) in the tourney at Nova. He has 5 Sweet 16s, 3 Elite 8s, 2 Final 4s, and 1 NC. He got Hofstra to the tourney twice and lost in the first round both times. But he is also in is 17th year. There is no doubt in my mind that if Mack stays at X for 8 more years, he will match tha the Elite 8s and Final 4s. The stars have to align for an NC...
Let's March!
Anti-Homer
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Re: 202!

Postby Anti-Homer » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:37 pm

xu koop scoop wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:20 pm
In response to the Davidson comments & Steph Curry, I believe they made the Elite 8 one of his seasons - which is far better than 80th best program. LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER: MACK IS 11-7 IN NCAA. WHAT IS JAY WRIGHT'S OVERALL NCAA RECORD. Doubt it is any better Pct.
Ok,

As you did, I'll cherry pick Curry's next year, when they didn't even make the tourney. Where did they rank then? They only won 3 NCAA tourney games in Curry's 3 years, but I'm fairly confident he was still the best guard to come out of that class. He just didn't have the same high caliber teammates as teams who won more games in the tourney had during his 3 yrs. However, Davidson's record during his tenure doesn't support that; not even close. The point is that there are too many variables to compare them, but that wasn't Tacitus' point.

As far as comparing CM's tourney record to J Wright, good luck with that. it's unfair to CM, as he hasn't been a HC nearly as long, but he will need at least 2 FF and a Nat'l Championship (and possibility another FF or better again this year) in the next few years to match him.

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